It was modified to accept a detachable magazine and equipped with a folding stock. But you have no proof that the .45 ACP will work that much better. View our Terms of Service Thank you Bill ! It also drops in Air Drops, rarely as Tier Chest loot, or very rarely spawn as Tier World loot. I usually only post on the Reloading and Springfield portions of this forum, but I feel it needs to be stated of course that all the well educated and sincere folks who have posted actual facts regarding calibers and flung mass "shapes" are simply trying to destroy the internet and forums like these. Fragmentation cannot reliably be counted upon with handgun wounds because of the comparatively low velocity of handgun rounds. So they fudge the data. But I do like Cor- Bon, and Glaser POWRBALL BY COR-BON. The only gun I could get to in time was a Glock 17 loaded with 115 grn jhp ammo. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. I settled on a 9-round single-stack .40 S&W that has almost identical dimensions to the same pistol in 9mm. When all else fails, when the rounds fail to stop the bad guy, then you need time on your side. Thats not the kind of performance Im looking for. The role of the gun industry in Americas gun violence epidemic. This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. Okay 9s are cool, hold a lot of rounds, small recoil, cheap to shoot and buy. When it does occur, it is not a significant factor in wounding. round, you can see all three effects. Was the 357 mag. The FBI just did the same thing. The beautiful country in south east Asia. Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! Plus, this decision saves the military a substantial amount of money as Glocks are cheap, and the 9mm ammo is also very affordable and, perhaps more importantly, readily available. I am just way more comfortable with the way it shoots. Nothing beats a 12 guage with 100 rounds of 00 and slugs. But nearly worthless in real world situations. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. Do any one you know carry just ball rounds in their handguns? The 45 acp caused significant damage to the human body. Someone may be laughing but I am given to understand that over in Iraq and Astan there are people who frequently HAVE had to chase down individuals who have been wounded with a handgun. I have several 1911 pistols. Most people ask to be shot with the 9mm instead of the .45acp. All studies are greatly flawed and there is no serious pursuit of better studies due to the enormous difficulty, if not impossibility, of scientifically analyzing real-life shooting incidents. Now let me add a little something about 9mm vs .45. I have never personally tested 9mm long range, but I have seen 45 Auto results. The money has to come from somewhere. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and dont care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ. Enter https://www.police1.com/ and click OK. There is a wide range of participants and many of them have never fired a gun of any kind. That and other factors. I used to work in inner city and poor crime ridden areas when all I had was the 45. I know .45 is a good SD round against the two legged threats. The average criminal etc. Prefer a 9 mm. And if Im responsible enough to use a firearm to fight for my government, Im responsible enough to own a firearm to protect myself and loved ones. Some basic physics explains why the choice of weapon, or more precisely, the choice of bullet, enabled the suspect, James Hodgkinson, who was killed by law enforcement officers, to wreak so much havoc. The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their firearms. With the continuation of the pussification of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. For me, that is the Sig p226 9mm. It simply means that if you can shoot someone in the head, basically anything will do. Along that line of thought, I bought my tiny little 24 year old niece a pistol when she moved to Kansas by herself. I agree with your bad guy statement, but when I was training to become a Paramedic and obviously most of the training was done in the ER so we definitely saw damner everything you can imagine especially a lot of gunshot incidents and what I can tell you was that we were able to save and keep more bad guys alive who were shot with 9mm multiple times than those who had been shot 1-2 times with a .45. However, the .45 would likely be stopped from penetrating but there was a 30% chance, with good shot placement its energy could stop the heart. A 45acp will deliver more damage to a human body that a 9mm. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. If you want to test that theory in a real world environment. What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. He died in our E.R. Police1 is revolutionizing the way the law enforcement community But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. The question isnt how many people die from being hit with a certain a round, but rather what do they do immediately after being hit?. The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. How about a test sample of exactly the same bullet weight in a high impact L.E. Weve known this for, what, eighty years now? I like a simple .45 +P with a lot of lead. Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. Now lets talk about wound cavities caused by different caliber handgun rounds. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. If I were young I would consider a compact 45, but at 73. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. Especially when it carries nearly double the mass with the bullet? Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in New York Times reporter C.J. The gunman was able to inflict such extensive damage from across a baseball field because he was using a semiautomatic rifle that may have qualified as an assault weapon, akin to a standard infantry combat weapon. Shot placement?! Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. the statement that a 9mm can carry more bullets. True. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. Sign up now to get our latest stories and eye-opening briefings. However I agree with you about a .22 in the right place is more deadly than a 50 in the wrong place. It did when it came to FMJ bullets. I have yet to see this. However, caliber is at least as important and should not be ignored when choosing a weapon. This is exactly what I said above. Knock down power. One writer mentioned the old adage about wounding one and it takes two more to remove him from the field of battle. However, others say that the lowly .22 LR has the best stopping power, since it stays in the targets body and bounces around, shredding arteries and punching holes in internal organs. The one thing Ive learned and seen over a lot of shooting is that a 9mm with FMJ bullets is mostly useless. Now thats hilarious. A 4 inch Redhawk 45 colt loaded with 24 grains of H100 under a 335 grain Cast performance sledgehammer should be good against the largest carnivore Todd. There is little or no noticeable difference in wound tracks between 9mm Luger, .40 S&W and .45 Auto premium line rounds. .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. One of the best ammo in the market right now is Hornady Critical Dury which is 135 gr. But it is no longer valid against todays terrorists, and the mindset they fight with. So its purpose is based on design. I leave distinguishing the difference for law enforcement and military.In the moment of truth youre either going to hit properly or not. The officer fired three round from his 9mm Baretta 92F. A tenured officer responded to a violent male mental on a *TD bus. The results may surprise many as it did myself. A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. He also competes in USPSA and 3-gun competitions including numerous top-10 finishes at major matches and championships. Source: cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. I have used the 1911 govt. Depends. If you throw it at someone, not so much. If its fired from a Thompson Submachine gun, its almost guaranteed to be lethal. My department stopped using them in 45 cal because there were enough malfunction to stop. But are we supposed to believe the difference in air resistance between a 9mm and a .45ACP is that great? There will always by that guy who can take several shots before dropping, and there will always be that perfect head shot. Taurus 45 Case in point, a 1600lb bull mooseshot 3 times at 50 yards with a .338 magnum. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. But in the Kaos of combat (especially at dark:30) your intended target isnt usually going to present itself and just stand there for your perfect shot placement. Thanks for reading and applying some little used common sense to the debate. It appears now we have had to Dumb Down our .45cal. The programs, policies, and people driving positive change in Americas gun violence problem. It doesnt get more damaging that that. More damage with one shot. at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. During 15 years of LE, I have seen literally dozens of gun shot wounds. Unfortunately, there is no valid, scientific method of analyzing actual shooting incidents. Tearing and rupturing is common in tissue surrounding the wound channel. Anyone who has seen Clint Eastwoods Dirty Harry movies is familiar with Sergeant Callahans favorite sidekick, his .44 magnum revolver. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. For a tommygun, I'd probably go with 1d8 base damage, +1 magical weapon bonus to represent penetration and damage, and the ability to make a cone area attack (save or take damage). So any caliber is better than none. And I can certainly understand WHY you would be led to thinking that switching to the Glock 21 would improve your chances of getting a stop. The original FBI testing of bullets conducted in the late 1980s involved testing the Winchester 147 grain subsonic hollow point 9mm round, the Remington 185 grain hollow point .45 round and a 10mm 180 grain hollow point round. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not penetrate the outside skin of a car body. Mabe you are just faster and things work out like the movies. Lee reloading gear. Died instantly. Overall I enjoyed reading your piece and found it noteworthy that Smith&Wesson ( one of the great disappointments of this and the last century) was eliminated from the contract competition. Plenty of gang shootings. Projectile weapons work by transferring kinetic energy to a target, which ripples out as a shockwave through tissue as the bullet plows through the body, leaving a cavity in its wake. and Privacy Policy. When theres no more powder burning to push the projectile, it decelerates.