Share mutual respect and work together is the name of the game. Cadets are never saluted. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Ask any SJA. When an NCO saluted me, I didn't just wave my hand at my cover to dismiss the salute, but "locked up" a little myself, acknowledged him with eye contact, and responded to any greeting. I bet they could not even remember my name. They are everywhere and plugged into everything. I the DC power device safe from accidental shock. If cadets, during this valuable leadership experience, are not given the chance to act as lieutenants and acting platoon leaders, then the whole CLTC program should be scrapped. This does not mean they are to enact on that rank as authority has been given to the person in command of them. In flight school cadets qualified for flight pay in addition to their regular pay. They're all going to be SEALS. If you salute a cadet, who is not a commissioned officer you would be making the entire "First Salute" ceremony asinine if cadets had been entitled to salutes the entire time. If you're not an Infantry Officer then to us you're an NPC because you lack skills and experience. In those days once a month you went before the pay officer and received your pay in cash. which makes it pretty clear that West Point cadets do, in fact, outrank Army NCOs. The OP's original post wasn't worded correctly. The official General page for the Army West Point Black Knights. "(3) Senior regularly assigned Army Soldier refers (in order of priority) to officers, WOs, cadets, NCOs, specialists, or privates present for duty unless they are ineligible under paragraphs 2-15 or 2-16." The authors creative example about an NCO looking at a lugnut and an officer looking at the whole vehicle is nuts (bad humor). They won't forget what you've shown them and they will resent you. And you don't have to do any of that for delta. No salute. Ive been on both sides of the fence. 2LT Eisenhower, he was a 6' 3" tall man who was assigned to our platoon in 1992. Your email address will not be published. One of the biggest reasons to pursue Officership through USMA at West Point is free tuition, including an annual stipend of more than $10,000. (1) If a commander of an Army element, other than a commander of a headquarters and headquarters element, dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier will assume command. In addition to working with allied Special Forces units, he paints . When a cadet has to leave the USAFA before graduation, he is assigned to a reserve unit with the rank of Airman 2C. Biography LTC Joshua Lehman is a 2005 graduate of West Point and a career Special Forces officer. Oh please. But sometimes its good to keep the 300m target in mind as it is what might motivate you to get past the obstacle of the 5m target. Scott Faithis a veteran of a half-dozen combat deployments and has served in several different Special Operations units over the course of his Army career. Als u niet wilt dat wij en onze partners cookies en persoonsgegevens voor deze aanvullende doeleinden gebruiken, klik dan op 'Alles weigeren'. Rrrrr matey, were be that 3rd Lieutenant. (2) If the commander of a headquarters and headquarters element dies, becomes disabled, retires, is reassigned, or is temporarily absent, the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier of the particular headquarters and headquarters element who performs duties within the element will assume command. It is used to predict a candidate's aptitude for the physical program at the service academies. I felt honored to have him there. Forces Korea, the Department of Defense, or any agency of the U.S. government. WEST POINT, N.Y. (Oct. 25, 2012) -- It's not a summer vacation most people would fight for but for future Army officers, this is an opportunity of a lifetime. 99.9% waiting, 0.1% trigger pulling. Almost, like her husband, an officer and a lady. And keep your mouth open and eyes covered with your hands when it or any other explosion goes off near you. Life 101. of Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04. So you are incorrect when you say that Cadets outrank me. And yes the officer corps views your spouse as just a "wife.". We had a young know it all LT around the COMS tent he starts looking around and I see him messing with the ground strap the future leader of our troops disconnected it. At the time the pipeline for commissioned officers in the Air Force was ROTC, OCS, Aviation Cadets, and the new USAF Academy whose first class graduated circa 1958. entitled to the salute.". I learned something that day. We get people whose ideals are from left field and seem to think the Army is their play ground. But usually, you're the one doing most of the work. Superior to a mere cunning, lazy enlisted man. I mean, that certainly seemed to be the case at Airborne School back in the day. Pursue a bachelors degree and earn your commission as an Officer by attending the countrys most prestigious military service college. (Contracted ROTC cadets are MS III and MS IV, overwhelmingly and predominantly.) Nobody reads your comments past the first four lines. It'd be an advantage coming from an Airborne infantry unit too, usually from the 82nd. In this case he/she is regularly assigned, potentially in an E3, E4, E5, or what have you spot. Working as a deputy or person number 2 is always a difficult task. This should not turn into a them vs us type of debate. . A very interesting thread. We always give you a chance before we let you sink your career all on your own. NCO's look at big picture constantly, good officers are aware of this and cultivate this. His operational experience includes deployments to Somalia, Nigeria, and Afghanistan. How dare enlisted swine preside over a command position? When I was a 2LT, I always took the fact that Vietnam vets 4-10 years older than I was were saluting me as an obligation to do my best to earn that salute. I was at Camp Buckner in 1989 as my Bn (2/502d, 101st ABN) was slated to train yearlings. Army command policy is clear the definition of terms. And if you think islam is a warm and fuzzy religion, you're way off! He declined . Seth Bodnar is the chief digital officer of GE Transportation. (Still, there is no need to salute them. I spent 3 years as a MSG and never saluted a cadet. In the 80s I was an instructor at the ANCOC Leadership School. Sometimes, XO is a way of calling the commander or a head of a department in the organization. THAT is the reason why the Army is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on you to be educated there. Ongoing Research Projects Speed is your friend in a convoy, never drive slower than the rest of the civilian traffic, that way when a bad guy is trying to catch up to your convoy, he sticks out big time and the rear vehicle can easily engage him. Correct me if i'm wrong, but my father, an ex-drill sergeant and Iraq war veteran, told me that to get into the Delta you have to go to Airborne school, Jump master school, Ranger school, Special Forces school (Green Berets), and then a selection process into Delta. I agree totally with enlisted not saluting a cadet. Indeed, a cadet assigned as a visitor to a regular unit on active duty would not be under disciplinary sanctions by his training command and institution if s/he were under sanctions the cadet would be disqualified from visiting. The wear of civilian clothes and non-standard uniforms by soldiers was not a new development in 2002. The discussion shifts to Cold War Europe, and he addresses both the Cuban Missile Crisis and the later shift to Dtente. You're right, Sergeant, a West Point cadet DOES . Tom is passionate about the policymaking process, civil-military relations, and economics. Wanneer u onze sites en apps gebruikt, gebruiken we, gebruikers authenticeren, veiligheidsmaatregelen toepassen en spam en misbruik voorkomen, en, gepersonaliseerde advertenties en content weergeven op basis van interesseprofielen, de effectiviteit meten van gepersonaliseerde advertenties en content, en, onze producten en services ontwikkelen en verbeteren. I retired ten years ago as an 11B SNCO with 26 years in service and a star on my CIB. For some reason a lot of angry major S3 types fall into this category. Simple professionalism is another, Respect the service, respect the service member. No Salute should be required or rendered. Transition from civilian life to military life with Basic Training, Introduction to Warfighting, and academic courses including English, math, military science, and more. Such questions are usually better asked through private means. 18A Special Forces officer is NOT a selection for branches on graduating from West Point. Technically. I see that USMA had a proud communist recently graduate, he might as well spit in my face and all other better warriors than myself before me. You do your best, and if they see enough that they like, they may SELECT you. In 2003 we never went slower than 55, usually 60 MPH and we never lost anyone. The use of software that blocks ads hinders our ability to serve you the content you came here to enjoy. Mids rank between W-1 and W-2 last time I had occasion to check. Of course, there is another reason to treat West Point and ROTC cadets with respect: they are not going to be cadets forever. So I think he had it right. To this day I credit a lot of the success I had when I went on active duty after I graduated to this great NCO. We are officers in training and when we get a chanve at a leadership role with the guidance of the NCOs it will ensure our success as officers. Then again for the same categories who were on rear detachment duties! Medical students do not do anything on their own authority, and it would be illegal as they are unlicensed. My CTLT with D 1/47th IN (1983) was an amazing experience preparing me to enter an Army in transition, and the esprit de corps and commitment to duty extended from CPT Barber to every member of the command, even their temporary members (a USMA Cadet and me), with especially valuable membership from NCOs in the command. Now by chance he.be in a billet at some hq and psperwork comes in front of him about ration counts for personnel and what the job description calls for for a 3m Senior Cook requisition.. for his order.. what its called these days) hell be sble to understand better what the job description says. Joseph John Quichocho, 1SG E-8 RETIRED US ARMY. Cadets are still learning and everyone in the unit should help mentor them and show the value of NCOs. I agree with you Sir. You have to chose some other branch. CTLT happens in all kinds of units, both in the US and OCONUS. They aren't commissioned yet, and as pointed out above, they are considered equivalent to an E-5. A Gunny at 29Palms RTAMS and a Chief at NASA/AMES CA are among my most treasured mentors. On June 11th, an angry and mournful. It's ideal to apply during the spring of your junior year in high school. If married his spouse is always addressed a "Lady so and so.". First, what an insult to a SNCO that instead of a 1SG with 10 plus years of experience leading soldiers in the absence of officers A Cadet would be next in succession. All West Point applicants must meet the following personal qualifications before applying: Be a US citizen (unless you qualify under one of the exceptions) Be at least 17 but not 23 or older on July 1 of the year they enter West Point. Something I wish I knew 50 years ago. I'm popping into the conversation late, but I completely agree (not that you can argue with the regs). I chose Engineer with the full intent of going to Special Forces at some later point. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. The Army is always evolving but power bitches have always been around, we just don't frag them as we used to. Cadets saluted officers of all United States uniformed services. Plus, it's not typically possible for a Cadet to be a " regularly assigned member" of any unit other than their school unit. You and everybody else. I respect ALL Personnel of the US ARMED FORCES and Civilians appointed over me. As it turns out, West Point cadets *do* outrank Army noncommissioned officers (NCOs). Officers and NCO's must realize alike that, they way you treat your future Officers (NCO's case) and the way you treat your subordinates (Officers case) will dictate how the military can and will be run in the future. Who ever thinks about crawling for 24 hours, ten feet per hour, just to get to the hide, then lie there for 36 more hours, doing absolutely nothing but remaining still and scanning for an anomoly, pissing into the ground where you're lying, waiting for that ten second opportunity? Fact #1: West Point is the oldest continuously operated Army post in the United States. West Point graduates are highly sought after. Thought about it and stored it away and drove on. So you are always busy and have something to do. Does the cadet have offiCial orders? A little ancient cadet history for anyone interested. Henry Thompson is a junior at the United States Military Academy at West Point, where he majors in American politics and minors in grand strategy. Cadets should know that they must earn respect. Unprofessional. Training emphasized task organization, mission analysis and planning, property accountability, negotiation skills, emotional intelligence, small unit tactics proficiency, advisor skills, navigating. OK, fine. It is one of the oldest service academies in the world. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Delta has the toughest training in the army and does the highest classified missions. Take sniping. That sounds like a fun and challenging job. The first three months were preflight training at Lackland AFB where we were taught basic military skills such as customs and courtesies, UCMJ, drill, Air Force history, parachute training, confidence course, and firearms training. Even the 3 week crawls into the hide. He is passionate about the policymaking process, civil-military relations, and great power competition in the polar regions. Word of advice, if you want to write an op-Ed then you should submit it for publication. Abigail P. Gage is a national security professional with experience in the Department of Defense, at the Executive Office of the President, and on Capitol Hill. Special Forces Command 2020: 25th Infantry Division 2019: 1st Cavalry Division 2018: 1st Infantry Division 2017: 10th Mountain Division 2016: . And make it quick Lieutenant. 2021 Next Gen National Security Fellow. I respect them all but I just wonder what makes them "Elite" as you say? She hails from Easton, Pennsylvaniabest known as the home of Crayola crayons. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of The one group that actually gave us respect and tried to help and mentor us were the senior NCOs. United States Military Academy, byname West Point Academy, institution of higher education for the training of commissioned officers for the United States Army. He describes his training techniques for a Special Forces Battalion and working with other nations, including the Greeks, French, British, and Iran in 1976. It is a chain of command situation. This essay is an unofficial expression of opinion; the views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of West Point, the Department of the Army, U.S. That one NCO who doesn't give a crap about you is the one you should be talking to. The reason you would place cadets above enlisted in the rank chart is because they will be officers. And I declined two Bronze Stars because some senior Officer decided to dispense them for every Officer and Senior NCO in theater! Most of us own our own firearms and body armor because we assume nothing but pray for the best. I was further saluted by all enlisted personnel I encountered on base. Am forwarding this to my son. One of these ignorant academy types was my battalion XO at Fort Ord. Its part of the academys mission to educate, train, inspire, and instill the values of duty, honor, and country. Some in the media and NGOs were quick to claim . I have to say that I got a little bit of vindication when I went back to obtain some records from my old guard unit. Ready to take the next step? They'd go nuts. Visiting West Point Alma Mater/Songs Army-Air Force Series Army-Navy Star Series presented by USAA The Patriot League Just try it. Imagine that, good ol Top didnt read the entire regulation, only the part that suited his narrativeshocked. The smart LT listens to his/her NCO and seeks counsel from him/her. Yes I have seen a misguided ROTC cadet DEMAND a salute from an E-9 once. The CFA is a test of strength, agility, speed and endurance. Stay on top of the information you need to navigate the admissions process amid the COVID-19 pandemic. For example, if a division headquarters and headquarters company commander is temporarily absent, the executive officer as the senior regularly assigned Army Soldier who performs duties within the headquarters company would assume command and not the division commander. You can't lead if you don't know how to follow. You are absolutely wrong. Elite only in their mind. We have other job description s (stores /rations handling.. what that person is responsible for , order for commissary ration/breakdown The better we helped him to understand the less he has to look for answers. Every single SNCO I've come in contact with in ROTC has developed me as an Officer. No, they won't deploy in that position, but they can and do attend annual training and NTC rotations and can act as Platoon Leader. It would be a very foolish cadet who started issuing orders to a senior sergeant. In the military, XO refers to a second-in-command officer, or more generally, an executive officer.The XO typically reports to the commanding officer, who also goes by the names the first lieutenant and the number one. No, I always salute them and treat them as officers, and I make sure everyone else does too, he replied in total sincerity. You guys are all discussing how the Army does it.. Im AF and In Services(Food Svc) i was assigned an Academy Cadet to teach him what i was responsible for as a SSGT. Prior to his service in Special Forces, Sam served as an Infantry Platoon Leader and Infantry Reconnaissance Platoon Leader, including one deployment to Kunar Province, Afghanistan. CYS Open Gym. -If you are a cadet and you don't see the value of picking the brain of an NCO (CPL to SGM), then you will most likely be doing your time and moving on. 2 pm - 5 pm. single time. Abigail earned a master of arts in international relations from Johns Hopkins SAIS, concentrating in strategic studies and international economics, and a bachelor of arts, majoring in geology, anthropology, and archaeology, from Washington and Lee University. West Point Admissions Requirements and Deadlines. I wish all the young people about to start their time at the USMA or ROTC would come back after they branch just to see how many select what they started out wanting. Good answer. While youll be busier at USMA than your typical college, youll have holiday vacations and free weekends. A honorific form of address indicating respect but only for officers under the rank of knight. Incorrect. Dont take it as a sign of disrespect however. I pray that you are only a LT yourself. Be sure you join us as Colonel SHERMAN L. FLEEK will talk about fellow New Yorker, graduate of West Point Class of 1860, one of the boy wonders of the North, and future Superintendent of the Point--"WESLEY MERRITT." As for me, while a SNCO would in general be qualified to succeed a LT as platoon leader, any such succession would need to be limited to a short term basis. Upon the successful completion of flight school cadets received their flight wings and were commissioned as second lieutenants and incured an additional four year service commitment. You must log in or register to reply here. Is a cadet a regularly assigned Army Soldier? Until then, do not worry about your future assignments. Two of many subjects I taught E-6 and E-7 were Military Customs and Courtesy, and Uniform. Youll also be training cadets, taking courses in leadership development, chain of command, military history, and more. Very interesting. They aren't commissioned though, depending on the service, they are somewhere around a W1. Airborne to jump master to Ranger then a tour. I learned something that day. You are not a leader because you graduated from an academy. $100-300. Getting a college degree in a military environment allows the cadets to graduate as Army Officers who meet the highest mental, physical, and military standards. Hey brother. They are top of the line and I always set my goals as high as I can. AR 600-20 lists command structure. It can be a very valuable and rewarding experience if done right and an unfortunate waste of time for the CDT and unit if its not. Let me explain: Its summertime, and for many cadets in the Armys ROTC programs and at West Point, that means Cadet Troop Leader Training or CTLT. A wise cadet will be mindful of their position. She began her career as an active duty US Army officer and continues her service as an over-time major in the National Guard. Matthew holds a bachelor of science in environmental engineering from West Point, a master of business administration from Harvard Business School, and a master of public administration with a concentration in international security policy from the John F. Kennedy School of Government. including multiple combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and five years in two elite Special Forces units. Very interesting. This information was not covered or taught. | Est. Wonder if each Military Academy Of other branches has the same rule/regulation authority.??? Great investment. Period. Sure I went through some hazing ( Sir, could you go to the motor pool and ask the motor sergeant for a left thermal heat reticle calibration tool? I was sent all over the place until I finally caught on.) Even after more than twenty years in uniform, it still surprises me what I dont know about my own profession, and what I still have to learn from my NCOs. The cadet qualifies here too because s/he is obviously present for duty, as assigned. Pilot and navigator cadets went to different flight schools. I wore the Cadet rank insignia of 2LT. Other than those few, I feel as though the future is bright. I was an Air Force Aviation Cadet during the late 1950's. My NCOs treated me with respect while I was a midshipman, but taught me what it meant. It would have sent enough juice thru the not yet graduate nor commissioned idiots heart to stop. While the other sources trained and commissioned officers for all USAF career fields, the Aviation Cadet Corps produced only pilots and navigators. I say these factors because while the SNCO is focused on the lugnut and wheel base the Year 3 cadet is looking at the whole of the Humvee and as much of the landscape around it as he can scope out. Hell, we even had SGMs who wouldnt butter bars and 1LTs, unless you earned it by being high speed and they knew it. I was floored. Milley Speaks at West Point GraduationWEST POINT, NY, UNITED STATES05.21.2022Defense Flash News - May 2022https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgt2lndbOCnZHPMh. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. His approach to us was simple and he asked lots of questions about how to best kill tanks and he found that each man has their own method of how they like to do things and tactics they like or dislike and for what reasons. March 6th. I'm an Eagle Scout and attended West Point as a recruited collegiate athlete. Cadets are Officers period and should be rendered the appropriate courtesy. I wondered about it at the time and this reminded me of it, is this more of like a courtesy thing where Warrants dont salute each other and shake hands instead? Tom Katsenes is currently a junior at the United States Military Academy at West Point, majoring in American politics. Yes I already googled it. The Army isnt some pay your dues ol boys club anymore. . There are no events scheduled on March 5th. He's a former U.S. Army Ranger and Green Beret. Both preflight and flight school were run under the traditional cadet model of upperclass and lowerclass where upperclassmen were responsible for much of the military training and discipline of the lowerclassmen. Everyone knows that the lowest Army private outranks the highest cadet right? No matter what route an O receives his commission by, he will regard his SNCOs and NCOs who trained him with the utmost honor and respect. I was now an active duty Captain with a right shoulder patch ( a big deal in those days ) and a couple of combat medals on my chest ( not bragging but including because of the story ). The views expressed are those of the authors, and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. In my case I was lucky and had a CO who was ROTC cadre and knew what to do with me. They assume command until relieved by proper authority except as provided in 2-8c. He has operational experience and deployments to the Middle East and several countries in Latin America. Start putting what youve learned to the test with Field Training, Fundamentals of Army Operations, and courses in foreign language, physics, American politics, and more. You have to pass an iq test, fitness test, and selection board. Pro-Tip: Don't make a blog post, offer a comment section, then expect not to be schooled by your elders, especially when taking a condescending tone. I was surprised at the gate when I was saluted by the gate personnel. Paras 2-9 and 2-10, AR 600-20 further reinforce Scott Faiths important points here. No one does this better than The Corps. A the this leader our soldiers says to me that I did not ground the equipment right. I never got gigged for not saluting another LT, so I didnt think much of it. A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides. FOOLISH it is for there to be any antagonism between NCOs and cadets, or NCOs and lieutenants. You know this, you are assigned as whatever rank you have in the guard. You missed it my good first sergeant so I dutifully call your attention to it.
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